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HELP regarding a Yahoo auction SCAM with Buyee

Bad_Ad84

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This happens all the time. There's not much you can do about it, if you weren't willing to pay how much you set snipe to - go lower next time.

If you were, then you were OK to pay this amount and just take it as a lesson learned.
 

Tongara

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This happens all the time. There's not much you can do about it, if you weren't willing to pay how much you set snipe to - go lower next time.

If you were, then you were OK to pay this amount and just take it as a lesson learned.
Yeah, the situation sucks, but this post is pretty much on the money.
 

SuperH

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Yeah, the situation sucks, but this post is pretty much on the money.
I disagree. When people place a snipe at their maximum, they’re indicating the maximum they are willing to pay in a competitive market. If they hit their max in a competitive market they know they’ve paid relative market value.

If they’re versus a shill bidder and there are no other genuine bidders (or genuine bidders were valued far lower) they have only bid against themselves and not paid a true auction market rate - they rightly should feel ripped off.

It also distorts apparent market rates to onlookers. This leads to misconceptions by the community over what some items might be valued at.
 
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Tongara

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I disagree. When people place a snipe at their maximum, they’re indicating the maximum they are willing to pay in a competitive market. If they hit their max in a competitive market they know they’ve paid relative market value.

If they’re versus a shill bidder and there are no other genuine bidders (or genuine bidders were valued far lower) they have only bid against themselves and not paid a true auction market rate - they rightly should feel ripped off.

It also distorts apparent market rates to onlookers. This leads to misconceptions by the community over what some items might be valued at.
Feel free to disagree, but please don't weirdly "auctionsplain". I am more than aware of how they work and how/why people bid, etc, as I am sure everyone else is. Haha

The problem is, this has sadly always happened, and will probably continue to forever, as new ways will always be found. Due to this, exercise caution and only bid what you are willing to pay. Simples.

The rest, such as value misconceptions are just part of the community in general. This alone is not the cause, just one of many symptoms of a larger problem.
 
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SuperH

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Feel free to disagree, but please don't auctionsplain to me. I am more than aware of how they work and how people bid, etc. Haha

Seems like I need to ‘auctionsplain’ to you because your solution is really unsophisticated and if the community follows your advice it will just contribute to the problems I’ve mentioned.

So to repeat; if there is an item you must have from any of the seller IDs mentioned in my first post in this thread, or another seller you suspect of shill bidding, the workarounds include:

a) Never use a snipe bid (he will just make you hit your max every time)
b) Watch the detailed bidder view as the auction unfolds; you can identify his fake/shill bid accounts by the low rating (typically rated 5 or less but I have seen up to 30s).
c) Only bid against genuine bids, after he has cancelled his shill bids in the final minute.
d) Hold your nerve; you might be losing in the final minute but check if it’s to a fake/shill account. Don’t try to outbid it, he will cancel it if he’s willing to sell.
 

HI_RICKY

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buyer want cheap, seller want high
buyer don't want ppl know item is there , seller want ppl know item is hot

it a real life style ;)

reseller want buy every devstuff on marker, make it more high resell it, so they will put alot $ buy it , once no more on marker , price is up coming ;) e.g.. Japangames~ , O32...<- at list I know they a not collector...

buy stuff like stock , we can not drive time machine back to future take the good price ;)
 
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Tongara

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Seems like I need to ‘auctionsplain’ to you because your solution is really unsophisticated and if the community follows your advice it will just contribute to the problems I’ve mentioned.
That's nice.

For everyone else, again, exercise caution and only bid what you are willing to pay as there will always be scammers, etc as noted above.
 
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SuperH

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For everyone else, again, exercise caution and only bid what you are willing to pay as there will always be scammers, etc as noted above.

I don’t think you understand the problem.

This is not a question of what a bidder is willing to pay; it’s about deception.

The bidder thinks they’re bidding against genuine market competition and their bids represent a true value for the item, but in this circumstance it doesn’t.

Telling people to “bid what they are willing to pay” does not counter the problem.

In general for auctions, people will bid what they are willing to pay with the fair assumption they are bidding against genuine competition. In a fair auction, even if you bid higher than you originally intended, you at least have some comfort in the fact another person was willing to pay essentially the same amount as you.

If a bidder knew they were the only genuine bidder, would they still bid so high? Would “what they’re willing to pay” still be the same? Of course not.

In the situation of buying from a seller who shill bids, the amount someone is “willing to pay” should be the lowest possible amount versus genuine bidders (if any), else the lowest possible amount beyond the starting bid.

So telling people to bid “what they are willing to pay” is not helpful.
 

Tongara

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I don’t think you understand the problem.

This is not a question of what a bidder is willing to pay; it’s about deception.

The bidder thinks they’re bidding against genuine market competition and their bids represent a true value for the item, but in this circumstance it doesn’t.

Telling people to “bid what they are willing to pay” does not counter the problem.

In general for auctions, people will bid what they are willing to pay with the fair assumption they are bidding against genuine competition. In a fair auction, even if you bid higher than you originally intended, you at least have some comfort in the fact another person was willing to pay essentially the same amount as you.

If a bidder knew they were the only genuine bidder, would they still bid so high? Would “what they’re willing to pay” still be the same? Of course not.

In the situation of buying from a seller who shill bids, the amount someone is “willing to pay” should be the lowest possible amount versus genuine bidders (if any), else the lowest possible amount beyond the starting bid.

So telling people to bid “what they are willing to pay” is not helpful.
I understand the problem. I've given a solution, and it just so happens to be one you don't like. That is fine, and it's life.

Hell, I didn't even give the original opinion, I just agreed with what Bad_Ad84 said, and you quoted ME for whatever reason. I've listened to you over and over, and I'm tired of the walls of text where you're just rambling and repeating yourself.

Thank you for posting the names of accounts for people to watch out for. People can now exercise caution and only bid what they would be willing to pay in a system that always has been and always will be stacked against them to get the chance to own the things they enjoy. Life sadly isn't fair. Other than that, I really really REALLY don't care to read it over and over and over.

Understand that this is not a lack of understanding your position on my part. I simply disagree with what you're saying, and no amount of ranting on your part will change that. It's "not helpful".
 

SuperH

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Understand that this is not a lack of understanding your position on my part.

Ok so just to repeat because it seems like you still don’t get it; if there is an item you must have from any of the seller IDs mentioned in my first post in this thread, or another seller you suspect of shill bidding, the workarounds include:

a) Never use a snipe bid (he will just make you hit your max every time)
b) Watch the detailed bidder view as the auction unfolds; you can identify his fake/shill bid accounts by the low rating (typically rated 5 or less but I have seen up to 30s).
c) Only bid against genuine bids, after he has cancelled his shill bids in the final minute.
d) Hold your nerve; you might be losing in the final minute but check if it’s to a fake/shill account. Don’t try to outbid it, he will cancel it if he’s willing to sell.
 
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Tongara

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Ok so just to repeat because it seems like you still don’t get it; if there is an item you must have from any of the seller IDs mentioned in my first post in this thread, or another seller you suspect of shill bidding, the workarounds include:

a) Never use a snipe bid (he will just make you hit your max every time)
b) Watch the detailed bidder view as the auction unfolds; you can identify his fake/shill bid accounts by the low rating (typically rated 5 or less but I have seen up to 30s).
c) Only bid against genuine bids, after he has cancelled his shill bids in the final minute.
d) Hold your nerve; you might be losing in the final minute but check if it’s to a fake/shill account. Don’t try to outbid it, he will cancel it if he’s willing to sell.
Bro, everyone hears what you're saying. No one "doesn't get it", as above.

I just don't give a shit about your rants on the subject or understand why you've decided me simply agreeing with another poster means you need to make multiple posts towards me just repeating yourself over and over when I clearly just don't 100% agree with you.

Get off my ass already. Rant at someone who gives a fuck.
 

SuperH

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Get off my ass already.

Calm down. It sounds like you don’t understand the problem and you became defensive when you suggested I was trying to ‘auctionsplain’ to you.

You don’t need to try and one up every one of my posts in this thread by dumbing it down. We can just agree to disagree and leave it at that. No reply required (y)
 

Tongara

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Calm down, It sounds like you don’t understand the problem and you became defensive when you suggested I was trying to ‘auctionsplain’ to you.

You don’t need to try and one up every one of my posts in this thread by dumbing it down. We can just agree to disagree and leave it at that. No reply required (and)
Bro, I didn't even make the original comment and you decided to quote me and rant at me and suggest that I didn't know how fucking bidding on items of all things worked, for literally just agreeing with that the poster had said. I answered back and you didn't like the response, so continued to rant at me. Quote them and take it up with them, not me.

I tried to simply disagree and leave it at that, and you just had to keep ranting. I already told you that I didn't agree with you, and that it isn't a lack of understanding, and yet every fucking reply is just you rambling and repeating that I'm wrong. You had the chance to just drop it, but you had to have the last word when I already told you I didn't care and that your rants were not helpful 20 minutes ago. You don't agree with me? Cool. Take your own advice and don't reply to me.
 

SuperH

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I only quoted you because you were the previous response at the time and you hadn't given much thought to the problem. And because everyone knows you like to troll.
 
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haliway

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Hi All, I’ve been trying to raise awareness of this seller for a while now.

The seller IDs to be aware of include;

kamukun_0720
elma7878
murah0123
deepseanet1945
kuriaisu1122

All have been blocked by Zenmarket but Buyee declined any assistance when issues have been raised with them.

If there is an item you must have from any of these seller IDs the workarounds include;
a) Never use a snipe bid (he will just make you hit your max every time)
b) Watch the detailed bidder view as the auction unfolds; you can identify his fake/shill bid accounts by the low rating (typically rated 5 or less but I have seen up to 30s).
c) Only bid against genuine bids, after he has cancelled his shill bids in the final minute.
d) Hold your nerve; you might be losing in the final minute but check if it’s to a fake/shill account. Don’t try to outbid it, he will cancel it if he’s willing to sell.

Here’s a Twitter thread where I outline his practise during an auction.



I have tried everything i could writing a 10 PAGE WORD DOCUMENT proving everything even providing the fake bid accounts and still Buyee refuses :
- to return the item or to compensate this scam by either lowering their fees (or providing a one time free of charge bill) and / or declaring a lower item value to customs.
- to mark these sellers as at least potential shill bidders. I don´t ask Buyee to block them because people might still want to buy from them anyway.

This was my first experience so far with Yahoo Auctions and i did not know that :
- a seller could cancel a bid with no reason.
- Yahoo Auctions had this type of time extension which is a perfect feature for such sellers (perfect for shill bids and for people to get tricked if they use a snip).
- a snip can not be canceled even though multiple time extensions have been triggered.

... Now i know and i will never get tricked again... However I will not let that go. Buyee should be responsible for not listening to their customers. Do you have suggestions about the next steps ? Contact Yahoo Japan ? A chance with my bank ?
Not really legal to force people pay (I´m sure they will even try to make me pay via their automatic payment system). They do not accept return and they have the discretion to cancel my membership and dispose of the item.

@Shane Battye Do you know how i can use Yahoo auctions without having to deal with a forwarder ? I need a japanese phone number and probably a japanese address too. Do you know if some sellers can / do ship items abroad directly ?
 
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haliway

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Thanks @Shane Battye . My friends reported them to Buyee and they refused to take action as well. FromJapan, however, did block all them

FromJapan hasn´t blocked them so far but do warn people that buying items from these sellers will not be covered and insured under their normal Buyer Protection Plan but only under their Basic Forwarding Plan which does not include any insurance.
 

Synnett

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on eBay, if the first bidder doesn't pay, the seller has the option to ask the second highest bidder if he wants the item.

That's the keyword here, ask. Kinda whack how Yahoo auctions forces you to pay, that's a really stupid exploit. Thanks for letting us know guys, I'm gonna be careful.
 

Trimesh

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However I will not let that go. Buyee should be responsible for not listening to their customers. Do you have suggestions about the next steps ? Contact Yahoo Japan ? A chance with my bank ?

(From Buyee's terms of service)

As explained in Subarticle 9-1, the Service involves the Company's purchasing of Products Etc. specified by a Member in accordance with the Member's instructions. Therefore, the Company is responsible only for the purchase and delivery of a product specified by a Member and is not responsible whatsoever for inquiries regarding the description of received Products Etc., claims, defect liability, or other demands etc.

So you can complain as much as you like, but you won't get anywhere because they can simply claim (correctly) that they provided the exact service they were contracted to provide.
 

haliway

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(From Buyee's terms of service)

As explained in Subarticle 9-1, the Service involves the Company's purchasing of Products Etc. specified by a Member in accordance with the Member's instructions. Therefore, the Company is responsible only for the purchase and delivery of a product specified by a Member and is not responsible whatsoever for inquiries regarding the description of received Products Etc., claims, defect liability, or other demands etc.

So you can complain as much as you like, but you won't get anywhere because they can simply claim (correctly) that they provided the exact service they were contracted to provide.

It is not because a company claims that they have the right to do something or they are not responsible for what they should be that they are actually following the laws of the country where they are located. In that case you buy a product, this product arrives broken and they can claim that this item has always been broken and therefore no refund or return may be accepted... That´s clearly against any consumer law in any developed country, Japan included.
 

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