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la-li-lu-le-lo and Opa-Opa’s game rant thread

Opa-Opa

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So, I figured out that the Kuro is actually fine. It just wasn't plugged in fully; for some reason you have to push it a lot harder than a normal DC cable for it to connect fully. I got it mainly because I thought my previous VGA adapter had a problem, but now that I have the Kuro working I've found that the picture quality is pretty significantly better; so I think it's worth it just for that alone. I'll probably post a couple pictures of that soon.

Yepp good to hear. Third party stuff has some issues with the DC connector. My third party RGB cable doesn't like red...*wiggle wiggle*




The first time I played Sega Super GT (Scud Race) was at Cici's (pizza place) when I was a kid. Playing that game at the time, which I think was around 96-97, was like playing a game from the future. I'd say it's actually my second favorite arcade game, the first being VF3. Come to think of it, most of my favorite arcade games are Model 3 games. Now I sometimes play Scud Race in Supermodel; playing the game in widescreen in 1440p is a pretty nice improvement on the original. I can also play it in 1600p on my MBP.

It's freaking insane how well Model 3 scales to HD. Now play N64 Pod Race in 1080p, Jesus. Same with Daytona 2. There is something even DC could not "emulate" what Model 3 did. There is a nice story how Yu Suzuki made Model 3 happen...

A Sega dude said in some areas Model 3 is more powerful than DC. I'd suspect color depth of textures, just look at Daytona 2.


Do you think you could edit your previous posts to turn the images into spoilers? Again, you don't have to, but it would make reading this thread easier for other people.

I'll fix that as soon...

Edit: Fixed(y)



I'd love to have that poster.

1757

It's yours. I'll give you my E-Mail and send it to you. It will be shipped in a "roll-up-case".

This is from the 1993 IMA (international coin-op show) show in Frankfurt:

1758

Very well dressed sneaked in pretending being some ..something, haha! There was RidgeRacer! and Virtua Racing!! Me as headless chicken running around looking for the Capcom stand. It took some time to find out...
 
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la-li-lu-le-lo

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A Sega dude said in some areas Model 3 is more powerful than DC. I'd suspect color depth of textures, just look at Daytona 2.

Both the DC and the Model 3 each had their own strengths and weaknesses. The DC could push more polygons overall, though the later revisions of the Model 3 were probably close to the DC in that way. The DC also had hidden surface removal, so that gave it an advantage in scenes where there were a lot of hidden polygons. It had a higher native resolution too. The Model 3 had more memory than the DC, and it also had hardware graphical features the DC didn't have, like fullscreen AA. I love both systems.

EDIT: That said, I think the DC should've been able to handle near-perfect ports of most Model 3 games. The fact that a lot of the Model 3 ports on the system kind of sucked was because they were rushed or poorly planned, or the developers just didn't put enough effort into it.


I'll fix that as soon...

Edit: Fixed(y)

Thanks, I appreciate it.


It's yours. I'll give you my E-Mail and send it to you. It will be shipped in a "roll-up-case".

Really? That would be awesome. Go ahead and send me your e-mail.


This is from the 1993 IMA (international coin-op show) show in Frankfurt:

Somehow I kind of missed out on SFII when it first came out. That was before I really started to get into videogames, though. I now have the SNES version of SFII as well as the Saturn version of SSFII. I've actually been buying a lot of Capcom games lately; I got Street Fighter EX3 and Shiritsu Justice Gakuen recently, and I just ordered Power Stone and MvC2.
 
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Opa-Opa

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Both the DC and the Model 3 each had their own strengths and weaknesses. The DC could push more polygons overall, though the later revisions of the Model 3 were probably close to the DC in that way. The DC also had hidden surface removal, so that gave it an advantage in scenes where there were a lot of hidden polygons. It had a higher native resolution too. The Model 3 had more memory than the DC, and it also had hardware graphical features the DC didn't have, like fullscreen AA. I love both systems.

EDIT: That said, I think the DC should've been able to handle near-perfect ports of most Model 3 games. The fact that a lot of the Model 3 ports on the system kind of sucked was because they were rushed or poorly planned, or the developers just didn't put enough effort into it.

Yep hidden surface removal by deffered rendering on the PowerVR2CLX was neat. DC can anti-alias but I saw it only once in a loading screen. What makes DCs RGB picture so smooth is the deflickered interlacing, it's a little bit of AA for free. PS2 on PAL 50Hz was really really horrible...it flickered you to death.
Another neat thing Sega did was a PAL 60Hz option on most DC games, what a great move.

What amazes me how colorful and vivid Model3 games are. Think of the bridge in Scud Race. DC was a little flat on colors or they tried to make games more realistic looking?

Edit: I think the most impressing racer on DC is Le Mans 24 Hours. It has very good lighting but ran at only 30 fps. Polygon count was very high too.


Really? That would be awesome. Go ahead and send me your e-mail.

Just have to check out how to PM...

Edit: When I click your avatar there is " Start conversation". This one for PM?

Good to know things like these are in good hands. I made some mistakes like selling a Sega CDX to some random guy. It even was fully modded by me, stoopid.



Somehow I kind of missed out on SFII when it first came out. That was before I really started to get into videogames, though. I now have the SNES version of SFII as well as the Saturn version of SSFII. I've actually been buying a lot of Capcom games lately; I got Street Fighter EX3 and Shiritsu Justice Gakuen recently, and I just ordered Power Stone and MvC2.

Haha, Power Stone is fantastic!! You can grab everything and throw it to your enemy and interaction with the backgrounds is fun too. If you can get part 2, grab it. The same thing only 4 Players. Speaking 4 Players, Giga Wing 2 from Capcom is 4P too. Capcom did a great job on Saturn and DC with all their fantastic ports. Then you should get Giga Wing 1 and Mars Matrix. Especially latter one is special...but you need deep pockets. I love shmups☺

First time I saw SF2 World Warrior (arcade) I was like, these are many buttons. Than came SNES/SFC SF2 and the rest ist history.

My favourite is SF Zero 3 on Saturn. Oh and have much fun with MvC2, the action is mind boggling.
 
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la-li-lu-le-lo

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What makes DCs RGB picture so smooth is the deflickered interlacing, it's a little bit of AA for free.

I'm actually not a fan of deflicker at all. It makes the image look too blurry. I even prefer PS2 games that don't have deflicker; I find the flickering more tolerable than blurriness. The DC has VGA though, so that eliminates the problem entirely. On the Gamecube I use the component cables and I use Swiss to disable deflicker in games that have it.


What amazes me how colorful and vivid Model3 games are. Think of the bridge in Scud Race. DC was a little flat on colors or they tried to make games more realistic looking?

I think the Dreamcast and the Model 3 were the same in terms of color rendering abilities; they could both do up to 32-bit RGBA. As far as the style of games, I'd agree that some DC games aren't that colorful, but there are plenty that are. Sonic Adventure, DOA2, Crazy Taxi, and Jet Set/Grind Radio are few I can think of. The DC is much better than the PS2/GC/Xbox in that way, I think. Those systems have a more "realistic" (for the time) style, but I think the DC's colors are more appealing.

A kind of related thing is that I got a Wii U recently, and I've been really enjoying it partly because of how colorful many of its games are.


Haha, Power Stone is fantastic!! You can grab everything and throw it to your enemy and interaction with the backgrounds is fun too. If you can get part 2, grab it.

I actually already have a copy of Power Stone, a US one, but that copy is totally covered in scratches, and my DC makes loud noises when I load it that it doesn't normally make with other games. The one I'm getting the the Japanese version.


Oh and have much fun with MvC2, the action is mind boggling.

I've already played it a lot, both in the arcade and on consoles, but I've never owned a copy before.


Edit: When I click your avatar there is " Start conversation". This one for PM?

Yeah, a conversation is the same as a PM.
 

Opa-Opa

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Regarding deflickering, yup the picture gets smoother but with RGB on a Sony TV it looked perfect to me. I just imagine having a Neo geo and living in a non RGB country.

Colors DC vs M3: Sonic and DOA are good examples of "Sega-Colorness". But still... just look at 13:24 and on, just beautiful. Or 05:18 which is my favourite scene in this game, these colors...


Edit: Another good comparison would be Datona 2 vs Daytona 2001. Which game looks better in your opinion?

Hmmm, now Soul Calibur DC comes to my mind... really difficult to put the finger on what makes the difference between these two architectures.

It's a little bit like Namco System 22 vs Model2. In some areas System22 is more powerful in other areas inferior.
PS: I don't want to derail your thread too much, feel free to speak to me.
 
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la-li-lu-le-lo

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Regarding deflickering, yup the picture gets smoother but with RGB on a Sony TV it looked perfect to me. I just imagine having a Neo geo and living in a non RGB country.

I play games in RGB on my PVM, and I still prefer the no-deflicker look.


Edit: Another good comparison would be Datona 2 vs Daytona 2001. Which game looks better in your opinion?

I guess 2 is better, but I still really like 2001.


Hmmm, now Soul Calibur DC comes to my mind... really difficult to put the finger on what makes the difference between these two architectures.

I think maybe the biggest difference between them was how they handled lighting and reflections. I think they were actually fairly similar technically in that way, but the Model 3's abilities tended to be better utilized.
 

Opa-Opa

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I play games in RGB on my PVM, and I still prefer the no-deflicker look.
Fair and square. I hope my English doesn't suck too much.
I guess 2 is better, but I still really like 2001.

That's what I thought too but 2001 is gorgeous nevertheless.

I think maybe the biggest difference between them was how they handled lighting and reflections. I think they were actually fairly similar technically in that way, but the Model 3's abilities tended to be better utilized.

Yes lighting, reflections and zone fogging is where M3 shines. There is a situation in Scud where you drive through volumetric fog...in 1996.
 

la-li-lu-le-lo

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I hope my English doesn't suck too much.

Your English is fine, no worries.

Yes lighting, reflections and zone fogging is where M3 shines. There is a situation in Scud where you drive through volumetric fog...in 1996.

The DC could do pretty good reflections, but a lot of games didn’t use them much. One thing I was reminded of recently was how, with later games, developers were able to do more impressive things with lighting compared to early DC games - which makes sense. It’s sad that the DC died so early, because if it had lived just a little longer they might’ve been able to create much better graphics. I don’t think the system was ever used to its full potential.

I received Power Stone the other day, and I’ve noticed some differences compared to the US version. One of the funniest is the fact that there’s a character in the Japanese version called “Fokker”. They changed him to “Falcon” in the US version.
 

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Haha, Fokker. They changed it for obvoius reasons. The truth is it is kinda name-play of a german WW2 plane called Focke Wulf. Japanese have a fetish when it it comes to Germany. Too bad it has to do with WW2 sometimes... Oh and please note, (almost) most Germans have nothing to do with Nazism. Germany learned their lesson but there's still some idiots out there. Neo-Nazis are the most unpleasant people you can imagine, puhh?


Regarding early/later DC games:
I had a similar thought yesterday like what would have happened when let's say Namco did 2nd, 3rd and 4th gen games after SoulCalibur. Think of RRacer, Revolution, Rage Racer and then R4. Now imagine this on DC. Fook Sony with their lame PS2?

DC shined just for a short brief amount of time, but it shined very brightly? I'll never forget when Skies of Arcadia US came out and many many other AAA titles at Christmas 2000 I think (?). My second job was modding/repairing stuff in a cool video game (used/new import stuff) shop and I ran out of money trying to buy all that Dreamcast goodness, plus being with 1000 DeutschMark in debt at said shop. Fixing peoples' stuff made me happy, the only time in my life my work was appreciated, *sniff*...
 
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la-li-lu-le-lo

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Neo-Nazis are the most unpleasant people you can imagine, puhh?

Agreed. They're in the US too, and it sucks. I've never met one personally though, and I wouldn't want to.


I had a similar thought yesterday like what would have happened when let's say Namco did 2nd, 3rd and 4th gen games after SoulCalibur. Think of RRacer, Revolution, Rage Racer and then R4. Now imagine this on DC. Fook Sony with their lame PS2?

That would've been cool. A Ridge Racer game on the DC would've been cool, too. Namco planned on doing a PC port of Rave Racer for the PowerVR, and they even made a tech demo; but it was never released. They also planned a PC port of Tekken.


DC shined just for a short brief amount of time, but it shined very brightly?

Definitely. I may take some pictures showing my entire DC collection at some point. I have lots of games and lots of accessories. Also, my DC is region-free and has the battery replacement mod.

I received MvC2 today. I was curious about something regarding McC2, and I think I've figured it out. I've played the arcade version before, and the last time I played that version, I was convinced that it runs at 240p. Now, I'm thinking it actually ran at 480i. I compared running the game in VGA and 480i (in RGB) – and in 480i, I think it looks about like how I remember the arcade version looking. Actually, this is the one rare case where I think the image looks better in 480i and with deflicker rather than VGA. In VGA, the character sprites look really blocky; it's kind of distracting. In 480i, they look much smoother, which I think is either because of the deflicker or because they're scaled; either way, I prefer the way the game looks in 480i mode. It's probably ideal, just considering the fact that the arcade version (probably) ran at 480i by default, though I think it could also be switched to 31kHz. It would be nice if 240p were an option; but I've done some research into that too, and apparently it isn't possible currently.
 
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Opa-Opa

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Agreed. They're in the US too, and it sucks. I've never met one personally though, and I wouldn't want to.

Many years ago I worked in a pretty freaky bar and prevented as mass brawl between 12 Neos and 5 Americans. The Neos were just looking for stress as they always do. The Americans did nothing wrong and were calm. Believe me that was very close.

Fun fact the "leader" who was not so muscular was called "Engelmann" with last name which means Angel-Man. Ugh... such an evil backstabber...

That would've been cool. A Ridge Racer game on the DC would've been cool, too. Namco planned on doing a PC port of Rave Racer for the PowerVR, and they even made a tech demo; but it was never released. They also planned a PC port of Tekken.

There is a vid out there with RaveRacer running on PowerVR1. Texture res was lower aswell as framerate (30fps) and some noticable pop-ups.

The only problen with all the VS Capcom games on DC is they use hi-res for the BGs and the standard low 240p res for sprites. It looks a bit odd. SF3 Newcommers/2nd Impact runs in scanline mode perfectly and in 3rd Strike you have some hidden options to turn off interlacing. Why would you interlace a 240p game anyway?

A very very nice example of how to present a 2.5D 1:1 fighter is King of Fighters 99 Dream Match on DC, which ist KOF 98 from the Neo Geo. When standing still it looks like the Neo with all that scanline glory but as soon as it moves you notice the BGs are polygon based. They ported 2D goodness perfectly into polygons.
 
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la-li-lu-le-lo

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Many years ago I worked in a pretty freaky bar and prevented as mass brawl between 12 Neos and 5 Americans. The Neos were just looking for stress as they always do. The Americans did nothing wrong and were calm. Believe me that was very close.

That doesn’t sound fun.


There is a vid out there with RaveRacer running on PowerVR1. Texture res was lower aswell as framerate (30fps) and some noticable pop-ups.

Yep, I’ve seen it. It wasn’t perfect, but I still think it would be cool to actually see the demo running.


The only problen with all the VS Capcom games on DC is they use hi-res for the BGs and the standard low 240p res for sprites. It looks a bit odd. SF3 Newcommers/2nd Impact runs in scanline mode perfectly and in 3rd Strike you have some hidden options to turn off interlacing. Why would you interlace a 240p game anyway?

Yeah, it does seem weird. Still, in the case of MvC2, 480i over RGB actually looks surprisingly good. Last night I downloaded a save with all of the characters unlocked
 

la-li-lu-le-lo

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It was very much much fun until people like these took over. I quit b/c I have standards.

I meant having to break up a fight between Neo-Nazis and Americans must not have been fun.
 

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I meant having to break up a fight between Neo-Nazis and Americans must not have been fun.

There were many situations like these but that one took the cake. Note, all of them were drunk and on some kind of drugs like speed. After I realised how close this was I shut down in tremble for some minutes.

Then I asked myself "Is this really worth it?" I deserve better than that.

I'm no brawler. I hate violence.
 
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la-li-lu-le-lo

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There were many situations like these but that one took the cake. Note, all of them were drunk and on some kind of drugs like speed. After I realised how close this was I shut down in tremble for some minutes.

I sent you a message. You should check for it; it's the little mail icon at the top right of the page. You can tell when you have a new message because a red dot with a number on it will appear over the icon.
 
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