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Planning for the future (Properly!)

Ryaku

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vous avez votre point de vue, j'ai le mien, et de nombreux sites Web qui ont fait comme vous l'avez dit ... ont échoué ...
 

Ryaku

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Maybe you can agreed with that, i think it's compromise (and you can be not good with that again)

You want release beta ? free of you to release it for every one.

OG could store your beta on is own storage location. OG storage Location could be accesible only for donators (because with time maybe your own storage will be down or maybe you will leave and your beta will be lost)
 

Ryaku

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then we can't assure it's backuped ? did we still have all released build of AG ? all released build are accessible for all right now ?

If you confirm me that we never lost build and all are accessible, it's ok good for me.
 

Borman

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Thus the issue with piracy as preservation, there is no one managing it. The issue is that OG wants to be legal (which I would argue that the line has already been crossed to not). Piracy is not the only form of preservation. The second OG hosts copyrighted content, that puts the whole place in danger. Throw it on Archive.org if you want a chance of it surviving, but even that offers no guarantees.

I work with people to preserve video games, big companies and small. One of the most common things they bring up is the legal issues. Last time OG faced a potential legal issue, it ran from it (which was probably the right choice). But there isn't going to be a third chance. This is it.

History is lost every single day, that isn't exclusive to video games.
 

Ryaku

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About legally, AG or OG are already illegal even if they don't store beta build.

"History is lost every single day, that is not exclusive to video games."

Should we just not change things? (at least for the video game)

then now i go to sleep, as boss (like said @FamilyGuy ) i have to wake up early to work and earn lot of money (Joke)

Have good Night / day
 

Borman

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Not necessarily.

Change doesn't come from hosting prototypes, there are other places that do that already. Hosting prototypes doesn't foster a community, OG tried that last time and it didn't work. Splitting a community up even further won't help things.

If people want to help with site costs, great. Keep things nice and transparent, and never let there be questions as to where the money went.
 

FamilyGuy

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then now i go to sleep, as boss (like said @FamilyGuy )
J'ai dit que certaines personnes avaient des patrons (avaient un travail), pas que t'en était un.

I think we made our points clear. I'll leave the arguing to others.
 
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Pinta77

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Is the goal to start covering the cost of the site, or start a just in case fund? We could at least start with a plain old donations page
 
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I think it's a bad idea. It would foster an elitist mentality in some people.

That's is exactly the kind of toxicity that AG managed to generally avoid and that made it feel different on the internet.

Agreed, this is personally something I wish to avoid, AG's 0th bit etc just made people feel special etc. All content here should be free to users no matter what the outcome.

Also, the whole paying for access to beta downloads stuff is legally very shady (making money out of what books down to piracy in a company's view) and could put the site in trouble.

Indeed you're correct. This is why we'd have to tread carefully and look into obtaining rights/consent to release stuff once the non profit side of the site begins.

Maybe ads for no-registred user.... but it's very very limited, and all people will be register to don't have ads, it's very easy.

Personally, I'm against ads there's too many risky factors such as possible malware/infections/privacy/security as a whole. It's safer having no ads than to have.

I don't like the idea. I think contributions to the community take all different forms, and see money as only being one. If people want to donate to support the site and get a badge, great, but donations shouldn't buy you anything special beyond that (and I think even a badge should be optional, I think past a certain point I really don't want people to know what I have or haven't contributed to).

100% agreed here, we'd openly have an expenses page showing what X & Y was used for. It would always cover the site/data storage/insurance etc and nothing will be for personal gain. I.e we wouldn't use donations to fund our own stuff etc.

Locking material also just doesn't work, people inevitably leak it out. The negatives far outweigh the positives.

This again, having it locked away results in leaks no matter what. This is why trading in data is tbh, retarded. It always leaks end of the day. Be it tomorrow, 10 years from now. It always leaks.

OG shouldn't be hosting prototypes at all.

Again correct, We wouldn't host directly here and we'd also have to look into legal options to deal with what we can. That and we need to get consent for stuff etc before release.

The second OG hosts copyrighted content, that puts the whole place in danger. Throw it on Archive.org if you want a chance of it surviving, but even that offers no guarantees.

Again correct, just look at AG and the issues i.e activision etc.

Is the goal to start covering the cost of the site, or start a just in case fund? We could at least start with a plain old donations page

It would be both, to cover site expenses and anything required for the site/community to function safely and legally.

It could cover hosting/domains/licenses/etc. Or be used for funding non profit status etc for OG etc.
 

Ryaku

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You talk about AG but AG is not Internet.

Many posts on this thread are elitist! it's like AG and you said "I don't want AG" please Just read.

OG give link to Download beta, then store or download, legally it's same thing.


I never told you, money was to buy an island :)

Now you can just create new rank "OG Donators" and do what you want with that, and one day if OG would buy Beta build, make another spacial Donation just for it.

But for sure, OG donation each month will not work, free OG donation will not work (you give AG's exemple) , better is recurring (automatic) OG donation once by year. (even for 10$).

Some want detail to know what you will do with this money, personnaly i don't care, it's 10$/year , we are adult responsible people and although I don't know you I would trust you on the money/website management (i gave my money to Watermelon company, i know what is it to lost money...) ( i prefer to know what politicians of my country do with all our money ^^ )

And please don't tell 10$ or 35$ once by year it's too much, if you don't have this money you don't have system, you don't have video game, you can't play, but you can be interested. I don't tell "if you don't have money just leave" .
but when we don't have 30$ year, we have many others concerns than video games, like eating for example

And don't tell "you can"t say that!" i, say and i assume completely.
I didn't have money many years (i'm still not rich) , I never knew what I was going to eat at the end of the month but when each $ is important each month you don't care video game.

It's your own site, you want to share view, it' done and it' was suggestion, now you don't want it , it' doesn't matter, fine,
for me , Like said Borman "History is lost every single day, that isn't exclusive to video games." and it works also for community and website :)
 
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la-li-lu-le-lo

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I don't have a problem with having fundraisers/donations. Forming the site as a non-profit isn't a bad idea; though like Borman said, if there are betas/protos posted here, that could cause legal issues. One thing to consider, like some people suggested, is whether that should be a focus of the site or not. What is the site's intended purpose? I'm not sure that it has a clear purpose currently, so that's something that needs to be discussed, I think.

Some people mentioned ways to grow the community. I've noticed that the site's activity has slowed down a little lately, at least the parts that I look at the most. I think this is partly due to the fact that forums in general aren't as popular as they used to be, due to things like social media. However, I think that probably the best way to grow the community and get people interested in the site would be to post things on other places on the internet - social media, YouTube, etc. - to get people's attention. I think trying to get direct traffic to a site like this is hard to do; you're more likely to get traffic by referencing the site elsewhere. Maybe you could have something where anyone on the site can contribute a photo or a brief video, and then you release a compilation of all of them on YouTube. On social media, you could occasionally post updates on interesting stuff happening on the site. Just ideas, maybe someone else can add to that.

Speaking of AG, Kevin sort of tried to do those things, but he got lazy and didn't really stick to it. I think for that to work you need to post things semi-regularly and not get lazy and abandon it for a while, like Kevin did.
 
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Ryaku

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Diffuse information on some social media like Youtube is great idea, but like you said it's need to be semi-regulary,
maybe youtube chanel can be managed by some others peoples, share build, how it's possible to have debug menu on some games, technical informations, new informations, etc.... (not to share collection, it's very not interesting)
 

Hokusai

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Before anwering the question : "How do we fund OG", I think we should answer the question : "what is OG about, and for which audience?"

What is the ambition behind OG ?

1) First, what is the target audience ?
Is it a small, friendly, collaborative, yet skilled people talking about betas and technical stuff ?
Is it a large audience of 1% technically skilled and 99% lurkers ?

2) Then, what is it for ?
Is it to release betas for all ? Hosting or not hosting ? Or just showcasing things ? And to share knowledge ? Like technical knowledge or beginners tutorials ?

I don't see how we can decide a proper business model without deciding this, like entrepreneurs do for startups
 

Pinta77

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You know that thing where a lot of people are at a restaurant, and they all put their credit cars in a bowl, and whoever's gets picked pays? We could do that every month
 

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I wouldn't mind donating to help crowd fund getting a beta of a game, as long as its released to the public, I dont want to send money to get a .png back, lol
Well. Borman has those killer instinct x360 builds. I think he wanted like $800 for them. That would be a GREAT crowd funding start
 
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I don't have a problem with having fundraisers/donations. Forming the site as a non-profit isn't a bad idea; though like Borman said, if there are betas/protos posted here, that could cause legal issues. One thing to consider, like some people suggested, is whether that should be a focus of the site or not. What is the site's intended purpose? I'm not sure that it has a clear purpose currently, so that's something that needs to be discussed, I think.

Focus should be on the site/videos/etc. We do have a plan b incase we cannot use OG as a base. I just can't disclose information on that right now but it'd fund OG still and still be used in preservation.

I've noticed that the site's activity has slowed down a little lately

Yeah there's been a minor drop in posts but same time with AG not closing a few have gone back there mean time.

1567004446322.png

Traffic wise, we're around a stable 2000 new visitors a day.
1567004525466.png
Before anwering the question : "How do we fund OG", I think we should answer the question : "what is OG about, and for which audience?"

What is the ambition behind OG ?

1) First, what is the target audience ?
Is it a small, friendly, collaborative, yet skilled people talking about betas and technical stuff ?
Is it a large audience of 1% technically skilled and 99% lurkers ?

2) Then, what is it for ?
Is it to release betas for all ? Hosting or not hosting ? Or just showcasing things ? And to share knowledge ? Like technical knowledge or beginners tutorials ?
The goal for the site has always been to keep the community alive and to further preserve video game history. Be it via the site/talking about it. Or via social media and youtube etc. These haven't been sorted yet as I'm currently tied up with some offline stuff.

1567004336960.png
 

Hokusai

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I think it will be hard to monetize anything on OG for 2 reasons :
- we can’t monetize builds or hardware for copyright issues
- and we can’t monetize knowledge because it is contrary to OG educational culture as stated by Damien above.

So I think the fund raising is the most obvious remaining way to go. The main pending question is how we can incentive people donating ? Some people would do it for nothing, others would do it for vanity cosmetics and badges, others would do it if asked in a newsletter, etc.

Who works in marketing here ?
 
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