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Help with Sony CRT's and 240p

GatOber

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Well, i scored (but didn't picked up yet, and no payment made) a Sony KV-38DR1C where i live (Chile), searching in google i was able to find that in USA this model is called KV-36XBR400 and after reading a lot of sites and lot of different forums and post, i can make it clear if this crt handles 240p W/O re-scaling to 480p.

Some places says that it can't and displays horrible(32" Same line XBR400), and other says that it's the most wonderful 240p on the planet (FD Triniton like the one i scored says) (Wikipedia FD Triniton list) (excluding PVM's), i crossed upon this gif in particular, and i just want to know if the KV-36XBR400 it's going to display my snes via s-video like the Silver one or like the black one.

Help please, it's a big monster so i don't want to move it just to see that it sucks.

Edit: Attached seller pics of the tv.

 

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Opa-Opa

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The "scanlined" picture looks better. Does this CRT have any RGB input? Snes has RGB-Out on its Multi-AV out socket. And you need to solder some capacitors on R,G and B.
 

GatOber

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Is the model KV-38DRC1?
That tv would make 240p into 480i and will look bad,I would pass on it.

The back should look like this.
Yes, that's the back of the tv and model.
So i would look like the second one? (The black one)

The "scanlined" picture looks better. Does this CRT have any RGB input? Snes has RGB-Out on its Multi-AV out socket. And you need to solder some capacitors on R,G and B.
I would love it, if it shows image like the scanlined one, Composite, s-video and Component (This counts as RGB isn't?) only.
 
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MonkeyBoyJoey

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Component (This counts as RGB isn't?)...
No, that is YPbPr. RGB is different. It uses a Red, Blue, Green, and one or two sync signals (In the case of the SNES and most consoles, one sync signal). These signals are usually found on VGA, SCART, and BNC connectors labeled as analog RGB.

YPbPr is more like an enhanced form of S-Video. It has one Luma signal (Y, same as S-Video's Luma) and two Chroma components (Pb and Pr) with green being filled in by the TV.

If processed correctly, YPbPr looks exactly the same as RGB.
 

psydefx

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if you want 240p stick to a sdtv crt
 

Opa-Opa

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Is the model KV-38DRC1?
That tv would make 240p into 480i and will look bad,I would pass on it.
Oh jeez, it sounds like this tube is some latest gen stuff which worked digitally processing and having nice input-lag. Even if this is not the case, 240p into 480i... crap.
 

Pikkon

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Yup,those sony hd crts do digital processing,would be ok for 480p and above.
 

Opa-Opa

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Ah I don't know, wrong I do know. If you want CRT-Action it has to be the way it has to be. I hate input-lag sooo much!

There were some fully analog 800x600 VGA 29" CRTs around back in the day. Would love to have one of these.
 
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Greg2600

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I wasn't aware that the HD CRT produced that kind of muddy image. The SD CRT is certainly nicer. I have (more or less) that silver model, it's actually a HD tube but the processing is all 480i.

Have you tried various Picture Modes on the HD?
 

GatOber

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So, i have to see it for myself, and indeed, the 240p to 480p upscalling is not the best, it's like an emulator w/HQX2 filter, but i found that there it's a model of big crt tv (36" at least) that has 240p native, s-video, and optional RGB via mod, the older non flat trinitons top tier, thanks to all for all the tips and advises.
 

Greg2600

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Well I just naturally stay away from HD CRT's because I want to use light guns and 3D glasses, stuff like that, which will not work on them.
 

Opa-Opa

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I wasn't aware that the HD CRT produced that kind of muddy image. The SD CRT is certainly nicer. I have (more or less) that silver model, it's actually a HD tube but the processing is all 480i.

Have you tried various Picture Modes on the HD?

Puhh, Best last gen CRTs here in Germany were the "silver completely flat tubes" from Sony. My mom had a LOEWE 29" CRT which had the same 480i+lag issues. Crap:( If a tube is digital, forget about it. My Panasonic Plasma is faster than this LOEWE diddlidoo.

Oh and if you need some good LCD for PC. Go with EIZO. You can choose gaming-line stuff with super low input-lag (Foris line), business 24/7 stuff or image editing high-end-self-color-calibrating stuff. It doesn't matter what you buy from Eizo, it's good. They are the best. 50.000+ hrs on my business Eizo, still going strong :)

1951

This Foris Eizo sold to me by a good friend of mine... Sorry for the mess... yesterday there was some heavy gaming-situation going on with mister M, haha!
 
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speedyink

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There is so many variations of Sony's late CRT's that it makes my head spin...

So how do I end up with a digital tube TV with HDMI, that has no discernible input lag? Using the Composite/S-Video/Component inputs it looks pretty darn good to my eye. I'm pretty sensitive to input lag, and this particular one feels just like any other old CRT for that.
Of course it does however lack the thick scan lines, being an HD (super fine pitch) tube. I have a confession...I know it's blasphemous, but I prefer the thinner scan line look to the thicker one (awaits stones thrown in my direction).

I have a Toshiba with component inputs for light guns and stuff. It's ok, but it's got some massive scan lines. Might be like porn for others, but not me.
 

MonkeyBoyJoey

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Just want to state that it is usually the consumer grade HD CRTs with issues. Professional grade Sony PVMs and BVMs that are capable of HD do everything wonderfully and are light gun and 3D Glasses compatible. They even display 240p without digital processing or upscaling.

With that out of the way... iirc you can disable a lot of the extra processing on HD CRTs in the service menus. Won't fix the treatment of 240p but it does decrease input lag.

To my knowledge, those HD CRTs treat 240p as 480i and upscale it to 960i. You may not notice it but you lose effects like drop shadows (highly noticeable in Sonic the Hedgehog) due to the deinterlacing.

Seeing as these tubes handle 480p quite well, maybe one could use something like the RetroTINK 2x for 240p content?

Of course it does however lack the thick scan lines, being an HD (super fine pitch) tube. I have a confession...I know it's blasphemous, but I prefer the thinner scan line look to the thicker one (awaits stones thrown in my direction).

I have a Toshiba with component inputs for light guns and stuff. It's ok, but it's got some massive scan lines. Might be like porn for others, but not me.
Pretty sure that the reason why your HD CRT lacks thick scanlines, despite being a high line count CRT, is because of the upscaling to 960i. I have a 1200 line aperture grill PC CRT which is sharper than the sharpest Sony BVMs (D24 and D32 models are 1000 line CRTs). In the HD modes, it barely has any visible scanlines. I set it to 240p at 120Hz (doesn't accept it at 60Hz) and it has very thick scanlines. Even my 800 line BVM is like that. 960i barely has scanlines but 240p has thick scanlines.

I do agree that thicker scanlines can be annoying. Those scanlines on my BVM make it a little annoying up close when playing Pokémon on my Game Boy Player at 240p.

So, i have to see it for myself, and indeed, the 240p to 480p upscalling is not the best, it's like an emulator w/HQX2 filter, but i found that there it's a model of big crt tv (36" at least) that has 240p native, s-video, and optional RGB via mod, the older non flat trinitons top tier, thanks to all for all the tips and advises.
I once had a Sharp brand CRT of that size. Used to play the crap out of Time Crisis 2 on it. It was huge and heavy. S-Video looked great on it even beside my (at the time) 500 line PVM RGB setup. My dad got it as a tip from a customer but we eventually got rid of it despite my objection.

There is also a 36 inch Sony PVM out there but don't expect to buy one any time soon. They are extremely rare.
 

GatOber

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I once had a Sharp brand CRT of that size. Used to play the crap out of Time Crisis 2 on it. It was huge and heavy. S-Video looked great on it even beside my (at the time) 500 line PVM RGB setup. My dad got it as a tip from a customer but we eventually got rid of it despite my objection.

There is also a 36 inch Sony PVM out there but don't expect to buy one any time soon. They are extremely rare.
Yep, im targeting old triniton's s-video non flat from now on, and that pvm it's a big no on mi wallet hahaha.
 

dj898

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in terms of scaling/upconverting SONY's WEGA KLV-15AP2/15SP2 handle 240p @15KHz signal well through its Multi AV input which is basically RGB Scart in disguise. :)
 
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