Virtua Fighter 4 Dreamcast....It would have been possible with enough I+D?

[Xaeroxcore]

Now that Force Five is finally on DC, we have the closest VF4/Tekken 4 DC Bootleg. Of course the canceled Atomiswave game, that wasn´t even meant to be a AAA title, is behind to those PS2 titles and even behind SC and DOA 2 on DC....but Force Five make some interesting tricks with lighting, backgrounds (with even 3D characters on the back), and textures....And it got me thinking about how an hypothetic VF 4 would look on DC...Did AM2 managed to do something apart from the VF4 Passport on DC? I would love play VF 4 on DC someday....May be with enough money it would have been possible on DC?

 

[PopetherevXXVIII]

That modem port might have been for more than just boradband.....

 

[JackalSpat]

VF4 is a Naomi 2 game, right?
So it's effectively at least twice the rendering power of a Dreamcast with more RAM and much greater lighting/geometry capabilities.

That said, Arcade titles--especially the first titles on a new platform--aren't usually coded particularly "close to the metal", and I doubt very much that Virtua Fighter 4 uses the entirety of what the Naomi 2 was capable of.

Looking at it pragmatically, I don't think the Playstation 2 port is outside the realm of what the Dreamcast could achieve, especially when you take contemporary Dreamcast fighting games like Dead or Alive 2 or Soul Calibur into consideration.

I think a port to Dreamcast would've required some concessions with texture detail, background geometry, lighting, etc. but I bet if AM2 were given the opportunity, the differences would've probably been less apparent than even the Virtua Fighter 3 TB port.

It's truly sad to me that no Sega home console saw a commited port of Virtua Fighter after Virtua Fighter 2, and I always wonder at what amazing titles the Dreamcast would've seen had Sega managed to hold out just a couple of years more.

 

[Americandad]

Of course a VF4 port is possible.

 

[la-li-lu-le-lo]

I think there was an interview where Yu Suzuki or someone else from AM2 said that they had done preliminary work on VF4 for DC to try to determine if it was possible or not, and they were not happy with the results because they had to make too many sacrifices - so they ended up deciding not to develop it further. Then the DC was discontinued, so that removed any chances that it might ever happen.

 

[Americandad]

Then the DC was discontinued

Real key factor right here.

 

[MetalliC]

I always wonder at what amazing titles the Dreamcast would've seen had Sega managed to hold out just a couple of years more.

to my knowledge, Dreamcast was NOT designed to be long-living platform, and originally was planned to be replaced by upgraded version (~Naomi2 equivalent) somewhere around 2001.
if this true - there wouldn't be much more amazing titles for original Dreamcast.

Of course a VF4 port is possible.

yep, we've seen Mortal Kombat games for NES or ZX-Spectrum, so VF4 for DC doable for sure, but obviously it will require serious rework (or to be made from scratch) and result will look not as good as Naomi2 or PS2 versions.

 

[Americandad]

result will look not as good as Naomi2 or PS2 versions.

Maybe, or maybe some clever engineering would make it look as good. At this point it's all speculation.
Also, terrible comparison comparing Mega Drive vs. Nes and PS2 vs. DC, ridiculous really. DC is way closer to PS2 compared to how far off the NES is vs. Mega Drive.

if this true - there wouldn't be much more amazing titles for original Dreamcast.

In DreamPod #77 (interview with Headhunter dev) Stefan Holmqvist states that Dreamcast was nowhere near showing off it's full potential by any released software. I tend to believe him.

 

[MetalliC]

Maybe, or maybe some clever engineering would make it look as good. At this point it's all speculation.

not speculation but suggestion based on analysis of VF4 for Naomi2 and PS2, plus deep knowledge of how N2 and DC hardware works, what it was capable of, and what is not.

Stefan Holmqvist states that Dreamcast was nowhere near showing off it's full potential by any released software. I tend to believe him.

this is partly true - almost none of games does full and balanced load of DC hardware capabilities.
but some do this - Dead or Alive 2 is one of best examples. sorry, but DC was not capable of notable better visuals than this.
in general, DC was good for the time of its release - 1998, but was outclassed by other gaming platforms released during next few years.

also, you missed main point - there is no reason to target some new cool games for NOT flagman platform.

 

[Americandad]

NOT flagman platform.

Assuming your hypothesis about Dreamcast 2 is true, at this point you're the only one who has spoken about this though.

not speculation but suggestion based on analysis of VF4 for Naomi2 and PS2, plus deep knowledge of how N2 and DC hardware works, what it was capable of, and what is not.

There's a difference in something looking the same and being the same. Meaning: you can make a port of a game look just as good on the screen while technically being inferior. That's where clever engineering comes in.

 

[MetalliC]

at this point you're the only one who has spoken about this though.

how do you think, what is total number of humans at this planet who understands N2 tech in all details and knows its development history ? (besides of original creators)

Spoiler

3
and I'm the only such person at this forum

and btw, it is almost same can be said about DC, but there will be a few more persons.

There's a difference in something looking the same and being the same. Meaning: you can make a port of a game look just as good on the screen while technically being inferior. That's where clever engineering comes in.

in theory - yes, but at practice - it looks doubtful. otherwise we should have games for PS1 or N64 "looking the same" as PS2 or GC games, thanks to "clever engineering"

 

[Xaeroxcore]

how do you think, what is total number of humans at this planet who understands N2 tech in all details and knows its development history ? (besides of original creators)

Spoiler

3
and I'm the only such person at this forum

and btw, it is almost same can be said about DC, but there will be a few more persons.


in theory - yes, but at practice - it looks doubtful. otherwise we should have games for PS1 or N64 "looking the same" as PS2 or GC games, thanks to "clever engineering"

But you forget DSC is one entire gen ahead of PS2 and GC, so, in theory itr could be easier to make DC games to look like PS2 or GC than 32bit/64 bits games...In fact, most of DC to PS2 and GC ports look at least to average PS2 and GC games for the early years, so at least on the 128 bit standard.

But i´m agree with you, DOA 2 is probably the tech roof at least on 3D fighting genre, which is no less....according to beyond 3d´s polygons counts (the famous yes, but how many poligons? thread), DOA 2 characters has more geometry than PS2 VF4 characters, and yes PS2 VF 4 still retains amazing lighting, particles, reflections and post processing effects from the N2 VF4, but DOA 2 stages are multilayer and some of them are more complex than some of the PS2 VF 4. So yes, VF 4 is more advanced, but it is on the same gen of DC, so it is not out of the reach of the console. I´m not saying it would look as good as the PS2 version, which is itself a tech miracle, but i see it possible...Only real reason they did not release it, is they considered a not worthy investment for a console leaving the market.... My point is, is not a way to maybe crowdfund an independent DC development that really push the console out of it´s limits, taking advatage of more modern programming tech???

 

[la-li-lu-le-lo]

What I think would’ve been even more interesting than DC VF4 is if they had ported the game to the GC or Xbox instead of the PS2. Either of those systems probably could’ve handled a port that was much closer to the original - look at the GC version of Beach Spikers for example, which was based on the Naomi 2 version. The Xbox’s hardware exceeded the Naomi 2 in nearly every way. I think the only reason Sega released it for the PS2 is because they wanted the system to have at least one big name game that wasn’t something like a DC port - that, and also maybe they thought it would sell better, which is probably true because it sold incredibly well.